For those who own cabins along the Susquehanna River, it has been a tense summer and it has nothing to do with the hot weather that has locked into the area.
For the last four months ever since Columbia Borough Council said it was considering a gift from the Safe Harbor Power Company for land the cottages sit on, the owners have been attending meetings in mass, trying to find out the fate of their properties.
Last week, the cabin owners attended council's property meeting and were told the "gifting" was still in the hands of the solicitor.
Monday night, the cabin owners and others again packed the monthly meeting of borough council and finally got a response on their questions.
The response came in a three-page written statement from Mayor Leo Lutz, who told the council to accept the gifting of the land from Safe Harbor and sell it to the River Cottage Owners Association through the Columbia Economic Development Corporation, similar to the way the Turkey Hill Experience project was completed
Lutz said (Food for Thought, posted elsewhere on COLUMBIA TALK) the sale would allow the borough to move forward with other projects.
Lutz' letter was greeted with a round of applause from the cottage owners, but there were no comments or a vote taken by the council on the mayor's request.
39 comments:
i wish!!!!! it's far from over. Leo did read a statement in favor of council finishing the 30 projects started in the boro. before it would get involved in another huge one. (i'm having trouble believing this.)
that's (headline) VERY misleading Barry. Leo read a statement telling council they need to finish some of the 30 projects they have started in this town and that he feels they don't need any thing else (projects) to get started on and also how he now feels about the river cottages, council said nothing and did nothing. i think they (cottage owners) should be safe though, these people put their hearts and souls into these properties for 30, 50, even 60 years. and paid taxes all those years on the properties.
Read the headline "coming up" under today's date also - Monday, August 9, 2010. it's a few stories behind this one. thanks.
Well apparently you have not lived in Columbia for very long if you think the cabin's did not win. What Leo says goes in this town. He tells council how to vote on issues and they follow his command!!!!
what taxes do they pay? Is it property taxes? Just asking cause i dont know. Robert
The Cabins should stay, Leo is right that the Boro has to many projects already that need complete. Everyone must realize that you can't build anything you want down there, it sits on a Federal Flood plain.
Take a look at Harrisburg's riverfront area. It's gorgeous. It's useful. Vital. EVERYONE benefits from it. Imagine, then, if it were sold to private parties for, well... their private parties on weekends. It would change the entire texture of the city. It's time Columbia move toward a comprehensive, intelligent, and town-conscious use of that Exclusive 'Club Susquehanna' Cabin Resort presently held by a lucky few.
i say light them up sing some campfire songs and make some smore's or you provide the dosser and ill knock them down for you this is a free no charge service to you. just remember on the islands if your building goes to the ground you can not rebuild. it should be the same thing here. you might say that's just a crime. ok so you say. ill just call it progression. you have to be able to see where all the talk has got you. if you can't it got you nowhere.
this is just one small item on a big list of things you need to help with. you and i and a few others can start the process of taking our town back. so rise up and together we will take back our town.
when i use the word you it is not intended to be a personal attack on any one person. it is intended to make each person feel as tho i am talking to them one on one. no disrespect is intended to any person.
michael anthony wright
p.s. i have been chased out of down there for 40 years it is my river too.
p.s.s. any thought, view, or other post by me are my views and do not represent the views of others in my home, work, or any other part of my life. simply don't take it out on anybody eles but me.
Response to: August 10, 2010 4:42 PM
I agree that we should ALL be able to share or use the property that the cabins are currently on. Demolish them and make this something ALL Columbians can enjoy, or don't accept the "gift".
Council has a responsibility to ALL of the taxpayers, not just a select few of 37 families.
WOW, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WOULD WANT TO DESTROY THE RIVER FRONT CABINS. SOME PEOPLE LIVE THERE YEAR ROUND AN BE HOMELESS. MOST OF THE CABINS ARE KEPT IN BETTER SHAPE THAT SOME HOUSES IN TOWN. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY GREAT PARTIES WOULD BE RUINED EACH YEAR. IF THE BOROUGH BECOMES OWNER OF THE LAND LET THEM CHARGE EACH COTTAGE OWNER RENT. LIKE A $1.00 FOR A 99 YEAR LEASE. WHEN THE LEASE EXPIRES THEN TAKE ANOTHER LOOK ON WHAT TO DO WITH THE LAND.
Here we go again. Everyone wants something for nothing. All of Columbia's taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for the few who want river access.Taxes in this town are already high enough. If you wanted a cabin you should have bought one and invested your money and labor. It's no different than hunting cabins on state gamelands. I really enjoy the beach but nobody gives me access to a property down there that i can use for free. As far as using the river front look at the river park on a saturday afternoon or evening. I recently went by there and maybe a handful of people were there. Nobody but boaters uses it much. If you don't use that river access why do you need more? Columbia is planning to buy another 14 acres above the old bridge and can use the money from the sale of this property to pay for the land and improvements unless you want taxes to go up again. As far as being chased out of there, all cabin owners are required to carry a million dollars of liability insurance for their property so they have to be careful what is happening on their property. I guess it all just comes down to people wanting what others have only wanting it for free and at someone elses expense.
There are many areas that all Columbians can share along the river. Don't attack the families who have been down there for 40+ years.
Invest in the land between the bridges and develop this area like Harrisburg or any other big city. It's easy access from the freeways, will draw traffic down river into town and develop along lower locust street as an historic, HIP place to BE!!
Listen, those cabins go up for sale just like any other house in this town. If you wanted access to one then pony up the money and BUY ONE! I don't own one and I probably never will. But I would never EXPECT someone who worked hard for their cabin to just fork over access to me. Unfortunatley too many people don't have that mentality. Nope,they think,I didn't earn it so it should be handed to me. Burn them all down and "give" them to the public? Wow,Talk about greedy. Let's put people out of house and home so I can fish down there whenever I want. Do people think the catfish in front of the cabins don't swim up to the bridge? Must be a catfish conspiracy I tell you!As far as getting "chased out" I can see why.By saying "chased out" you admit that you never were courteous enough to ask in the first place and just "assumed" you could use whatever you want whenever you want.I can guarantee you that if you would have asked politely it would have ended differently.
Bottom line is cottage ownership was never restricted. If you chose to save up and buy one I say smart move on your part.If you said,I'd rather just rent an apartment and blow my money on other stuff then I say that's fine too, everyone has a choice but don't complian about someone who made the first choice. heck, at least cottage owners pay taxes, what do all the renters pay?
As for Harrisburg as a comparison I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the riverfront up there was Harrisburg's looooong before private tax paying citizens built residnces on it. Also, Harrisburg seems to have funding that it can use to finish the projects it has on it's plate. Funny how that works. In business we call it budgeting and forecasting. It's really a simple term. We calculate the amount of funding needed to complete a pre-determined amount of projects within a given fiscal year. Project sizes are constrained by the amount of budget dollars to support them. If we don't have the funding, the project is scrapped. If you don't do that and simply say hey...that would be awesome...let's do it, as some on here have proposed, guess what happens to the business? Ummm...they go belly up. You know why? because now, instead of having 10 projects completed efficiently, cost effectively and within the pre-determined requirements you end up with 30 projects that are incomplete, unsatisfactory and provide no real benefit for the money invested.
Guess what, towns are businesses plain and simple. they have revenue, expenses and initiatives. If these three items aren't balanced they have the same impact as they would on a business.
Only difference is you'd end up with a bunch of people on a forum complaining about why the river park isn't finished or when are these stinkin' streets going to get paved...oh wait...that's happening now. Believe me, it doesn't take a crystal ball, just an ounce of common sense.
Right now Columbia is out of balance. Plenty of good ideas on where they want to be but insufficient funding to get there. If they sell the cottage land it would do a GREAT deal to get the balance back to where they can successfully complete the reamining projects.
Heck, they'd get the money and STILL add 14 ACRES of river frontage. The town would get PLENTY of frontage, get the money to pay for it and STILL people want other citizen's houses burned to the ground ?!?! Is 14 acres of frontage for the citizens not enough?
Columbia would definitely come out on top and addrss the concerns of ALL citizens. Park gets finished, building goes in, 14 acres are added on and people get to keep their homes. Hmmm...can't see where anyone would lose out on that.
Unless of course you're like a 5 year old on Christmas opening the last gift..."Is that all"?
Wow...all I can do is shake my head.
Theres more to this story then meets the EYE!! Its all about greed and more greed!! Kick-backs are for real here!! robert :O)
This is a HUGE issue for the future of Columbia and must be voted on by the voting citizens of Columbia.
too many people talk, who don't have a clue.
just asking how far along is the long level resort project.
it is a real project so i at least know a little bit about what i talk about.
Wow Robert...you sure do throw a lot of accusation around on this forum without one ounce of evidence to back them up. Do you prefer a stick or a wooden spoon when you stir the pot? ;-) :-P ;-|) :-O :->
Michael, if you know a "little bit" then enlighten us. I'd LOVE to hear the details about the Long Level Resort project and what impact that would have on Columbia's strategic initiatives.
why don;t you do the homework and inform people with the correct information. that would be a plus.
the resort will sit on top of the hill in the park at long level. we could see a water level of agnis every day. long level? under water. it is at least 10 years in the works i think maybe more. i dont know anymore then this so maybe we can all do our homework together.
for me this is not about fishing. this is about making sure all of columbia will benifit from this project not just a few. i think their may be a few owners down their that dont know this is in the works.
you know ass i may be. but i will not lie to you. it is as real as the day is long.
so sure i think the sooner they are out of down their the sooner the project gets done.
i think we should give them the empty lot on front street. call mega movers and move them. they would still have river front view and i would think at that point be out of the flood plane. now you have a house not just a cabin.
i also think a project like this would bring a lot of money in to town.
1 workers they pay tax some would live in columbia right.
2 the big people would need some where to stay. ie. the condo lol the down town hotel hell even mr. stark would get renters in his property.
3 when the project is done we will benifit from the people that come to town from the resort.
4 we still have our river front and the cottages are still safe.
so im not just about taking something from someone just becouse i dont have it. the truth is. i dont want it. i dont need it. i dont care where you put it. i just want the best thing for the whole town. if you truely knew me you would have knowen that.
ALL this talk about what to do with the money and all of the projects that could be completed. We are looking at this all wrong!!!
Doesn't anybody realize if you keep bailing out the 5 year olds you hired to do your accounting the problems don't ever go away? The only way to solve the problem is to fire the 5 year olds!!!
Let's address the real question, why are all of these projects incomplete when they were started with the financial means in place?
This council and borough manager will continue to mismanage our tax dollars until they are gone.
i need to correct my statement about being chased out for 40 years.
i was 5 it was 1976 i was at the river park with my family.( being from the north end i guess we were poor and down their for our weekly bath) i thur a stick in the river and followed it down the river until i found myself on this dock waiting for my stick (it was a battleship to me.) next thing you know some person (i really dont think of you as a person just trying to be kind) is out their yelling bad words and the like telling me if i dont leave they will shoot me. you should have hoped i jumped in to the river not run away to remember what you did and said to me so long ago.
so 35 years ago you chased me out and i have not been down their since.
so now you tell me what i would have known about property lines or anything eles.
you do remember it dont you? i do!!! it scared me a long time now.
From Anonymous:
"Take a look at Harrisburg's riverfront area. It's gorgeous. It's useful. Vital. EVERYONE benefits from it. Imagine, then, if it were sold to private parties for, well... their private parties on weekends. It would change the entire texture of the city. It's time Columbia move toward a comprehensive, intelligent, and town-conscious use of that Exclusive 'Club Susquehanna' Cabin Resort presently held by a lucky few."
What a breath of fresh air - forward thinking from a Columbian who is willing to move past the 1970's. By the way, didn't there used to be shanties along the railroad tracks near Musser's years ago? Quite a stink was made when it was decided to remove these as well. But this furor, as with most others, eventually passed. Things change folks - it's called PROGRESS.
- FU
LOL...so you're honestly telling me you're using an example from when you were 5 in 1976 to justify throwing people out of their homes in 2010!!!!! I almost spit coffee all over my keyboard.
When I was 5 this guy in a green shirt pushed me down..to this day I get the shakes when I see grass.
At least now I know I don't have to take your previous post seriously.
To the post at 12:27...you have a valid point. Right now we have a problem. The sale of the property would fix that problem. What you suggest would resolve the whole reason we're in this problem in the first place.
Although we would still have the existing issue to deal with.
if you been chased out for 40 years it's because YOU ARE TRESPASSING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY FOOL
and guess who would have paid if you fell in, got hurt or drowned. certainly not you or your family. helklp, do i play on your private property? no, i don;t think so
the bottom line is - it is NOT yours, you paid nothing for it or to keep it, did nothing to maintain it, you paid no liability insurance, you didn't pay the taxes there or for that matter at full time home in this town too. and, where were you when i took 24 YES 24 DUMP TRUCK LOADS OF TRASH AND RUBBISH out of there???? and that's only 1 lot. did you pay for that too??? and that's not to mention all the hard work, digging. pouring cement, building docks, etc. , removing poison, using a machete to cut down the high grass and weeds. you really don't have a clue
Love the "WoW Robert" comment. :O) And i use a Golden Spoon, not a stick or piece of wood. Robert :O)
I should have figured you use a golden spoon. From the sounds of it you think you're entitled to it and someone else probably paid for it ;-)
here we go i hit you with the facts and you can only try to bash me. ok bash the truth is you rent not own. other wise they would not be talking lease to you for $1. thats rent no matter how you look at it. you were also asked what taxes you pay down their no answer just bash. so since the project is real im sure you know more then us. so fill us in. you can not stop me by bashing. and let someone pull a gun on you see how you feel about it. i will not back down im not like anyone you ever met. its ok to kill shoot me but im not allowed to get even when i get the chance. you should have thought about how your actions were going to affect you years later. but i guess you must be one of the short sighted, and small minded people we no longer need or want here.
so now ill ask do you pay rent or not down their. are you going to fill us in on the rest of the project. i think not your just going to keep bashing.
so we the people awaite your answer or i personally awaite your bashing.
people their is a chance to make millions down their for this town they do not own they rent.
rise up dont get scrued again they only want to take from you and everyone else in town.
RESPONSE TO: August 12, 2010 2:37 PM
This is exactly what pisses me off!!! This mentality of certain cabin owners who call the land down there THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY!!
Well it is NOT, you pay rent for your cabin, Safe Harbor owns the land and YOU do not have the right to post it or call it PRIVATE PROPERTY!!
Just like any other "renter" in this town, you own nothing OUTSIDE, literally... YOU OWN NOTHING OUTSIDE OF YOUR CABIN! What don't you get about that??????
Mike, first off I have no idea which post you're even addressing but I'll respond anyway. Second, first you talk about being kicked off a dock at 5 years old and now about a gun or something? Where the heck does a gun have anything to do with this and what in the hell were you doing alone on a dock at the susquehanna at 5 YEARS OLD !? My guess is you should of had a parent with you who would of dealt with it. If you didn't then there's your problem, not the cabin owner who yelled at you. For you to hit a dock for a private cabin you would have had to walk a hell of a distance from the river park away from your parents. The water company is next to it so they couldn't have been watching you too well. In all reality they more than likely saved your life.
Are you talking to the current cabin owners in this thread as if one of them were that guy back in 1976 ?!? It seems as though you're addressing him! If you are you may want to step away from the keyboard ...slooooowly.
If you want to talk taxes we can really go there. How much do you pay on your RENTED apartment? Oh yeah...nothing. I'm also guessing you don't cut Jason a check every year for half of his taxes either.
You may want to step out of your glass house before you start throwing stones at others there buddy.
You say there's a chance to make millions down there too. I'm guessing you have a well thought out business plan on how that can be accomplished. Are they gonna build something? If so are you gonna let them borrow your money tree for awhile? Are they gonna sell it to a developer? If so do you think you'll honestly be allowed to set foot on that river front once they put in private condos? Not saying they would but it's definitely a possibility. Oh oh...I know...they can put in a pier and charge people admission to walk out on it. People will be lining up to pay to fish a river that has hundreds of miles of free accessible shoreline.
"It's no different than hunting cabins on state gamelands."
There are no cabins on State Game Lands in PA.
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Seems the jealous want what the lucky few have? Let the cabin owners alone!
In response to August 12th at 9:40
Well. now that we know what pisses YOU off how about listening to what pisses someone off who actually has a clue what they're talking about.
For you to be pissed off at the cabin RENTERS..they'd actually have to be RENTERS in the first place!!!!!!!!!!
If you would like to choose to educate yourself before opening your mouth and placing your foot firmly inside you'd know that they LEASE the land down there. Unlike RENTERS...people who LEASE land DO have the rights to it as PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! And CAN treat is as such. Why in the hell do you think THEY are the ones who PAY THE TAXES!!!!! Why do you think THEY are required to carry insurance on THEIR PRIVATE LAND!!! So I get a chuckle that people like you get pissed off at the cabin owners for calling it their private property when according to their lease and the LAW it IS THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY!! On top of that they DO OWN the cabins and NOT Safe Horbor. So the next time you feel like getting your panties in a bunch, how about you figure out what the hell your talking about first.
So I guess to summarize on what pisses me off is those individuals (such as yourself) who get pissed off at others because they're too lazy to educate themselves on the facts before ranting on a public forum.
After listening to everyone bash the cabin owners for so long I felt I had to respond. I am a cabin owner. We pay taxes every year on our cabins just like everyone but we don't cost the boro anything in return. They don't educate our kids, pave our roads, plow our snow, clean our streets, or any upkeep. We invested a lot of money in the cabins we OWN. We pay yearly lease money on the land, as well as cover the property with million dollar liability insurance policies which we are required to have, to protect us from people who don't respect the river or other people's property. We are responsible for the land our cabins sit on so we are not like renters at all.
We purchased our cabin years ago when it was totally trashed. We spent years of hard work and a lot of money to get it where it is today.
As for being Club Susquehanna, I don't see it that way. We're not horrible snobby people locking everyone out anymore than anyone who owns a summer home. Some people have mountain cabins (and yes there are cabins on state game land), some have beach houses, and some have homes in other states but they don't all welcome the general public for free when they have a lot of expense to keep those places. There are plenty of public areas to enjoy. We can't go to the beach unless we use public access or hunt without using state game land, we choose to spend our money on a river cabin rather than the beach or mountains. This does not give us the right to go on other people's property just because we want to.
In response to being chased off a dock by the owner, kids don't belong at the river unattended, we have to be careful what happens on our property because we are responsible. If something happens to someone or a kid drowns, we are the ones getting sued, not the land owner. Over the years we have helped a lot of people on the river. We had a young boy get hit in the eye with a huge rock near our cabin. I brought him and his friends into our cabin, gave them bottles of water,called his grandmother to take him to the hospital, and gave them a talk about how dangerous the river is.They repaid me by throwing their bottles in my yard as they left. Another time we went out in our boat to help a boy who had gone too far and suddenly was in over his head, yelling for help. He could not swim good enough and should not have been in the river. We've towed boaters to shore, helped them fix their motors, and been a port in the storm for people who get stuck on the river in terrible storms. Just the other week I offered help to someone in a sailboat when the air stopped dead and they couldn't move anywhere. We are not horrible people, just people trying to protect themselves from unattended kids, people who have no respect for the river or our property, and the possibility of being sued if anyone gets hurt.
Do you pay FLOOD INSURANCE? Also, you knew that one day maby one day, the time would come when the lease would run out or other means where you would have to go. This should be put on the ballot for a vote of THE BOROUGH PEOPLE!!! Tim
was 3rd & Linden on the ballot? that cost the taxpayers, hundreds of thousands....was it on the ballet when the boro went alfter its own and legally tried to get the rr from sahd's??? that was a downright disgrace, it should have NEVER been allowed, how can boro people sleep at night???? it cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect the rr that was THEIRS...
and this one takes the cake - WHY WASN'T THE CHS SCHOOL RENOVATIONS PUT ON THE BALLET - I'LL tell you why, the answer would have been NO. That was the answer they were getting at the public mtgs but they didn';t like that one, so they ignored the taxpayers and did what THEY wanted. if that wasn't on the ballet, NOTHING SHOULD EVER BE
YES...the cabin owners PAY FLOOD INSURANCE!!!! Feel better know ?!?!? They also pay LIABILITY !!!!! How about now? And yes, there's always a possibility a lease could end. However, after building the relationships they did with Safe Horbor there was a level of confidence Safe Harbor didn't have any plans for the land and the cabins would be safe. This is clearly evident by the fact that Safe Harbor is GIVING the land away. Of course, I'm sure you have a vast knowledge of the yearly finances and workings of owning a cabin down at the river. Oh wait, you probably don't. Based on your post you're obviously looking to take something someone worked hard for simply off of blind greed. By blind I mean you're pissing away the 14 acres of NS land simply because you're jealous of what the people dowm there have.
On another note the cabin owners also took the initiative to attempt to purchase the land from Safe Harbor the CORRECT way. And why shouldn't they? Some of them have 20, 30 or 40 years of hard work and money invested down there. Money that THEY spent to make the places look nice. Money THEY spent while you were blowing yours on who knows what. Money and work that YOU want to yank away simply because you think you're ENTITLED to it. Heck, if you drive through down there it's obvious that the cabin owners care more about their places that a lot of people in this town. I just wish some others would take a clue from them. Oh wait, they're too busy sitting out front all day doing nothing to pick up the trash and pull the weeds. Sorry, I wouldn't want to put anyone out. Why is it that people think they're entitled to more and more every year? Now that all the legwork was done Safe Harbor pulled the rug out and offered it to Columbia. OF COURSE those people who own cabins are going to have a stake in this.
So if we let it up to the borough people to vote as you said I can pretty much tell you how it will break down. Those people already in section 8 housing collecting every gov't handout they can get will probably vote to take this too. Those people who work hard and only take what they earn from the sweat of their brow will choose to either lease or sell.
Once again, I'm not a cabin owner but HATE to see it when someone wants to take something that someone else invested so much in just because it's not them who was motivated enough to earn it for themselves.
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